Debunking Economics and Why Bitcoin Will Fail With Steve Keen

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Название	:	Debunking Economics and Why Bitcoin Will Fail With Steve Keen
Продолжительность	:	1.09.45
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Can anyone explain what he means by “money can’t be gold” to me in another way? Gold has been used for money for thousands of years up until the 20th century so im not really understanding what his point on that is, to me money obviously needs to be tied to something existing in physical reality with gold being the best option, Bitcoin the best option for a digital form of gold
Comment from : EvanCatanzaro

Great revisiting this talk in light of recent technical and geopolitical developments Bitcoin is fixing Steve's critique is exactly what was required at the time and hope you can get him back on
Comment from : Salim Badakhchani

Visiting this podcast 4 years later it's interesting to see how little Steve Keen understands about Bitcoin and energy and how wrong he's been
Comment from : Gunnar Peterson

Bitcoin down 64 ytd How is that hedge against inflation working?
Comment from : Ryan H

It's time for an update, appreciate your content 👏🏾
Comment from : Jay Hamilton

He said in a round about way that we need a global CBDC (50min or so)
Comment from : Bhris Cannan

Gold isnt money spoken like a true keynes
Comment from : adiintel1

Steve Keen and Balaji Srinivasan would be a great crossover
Comment from : Ryan Lasek

I'm not one of the people who think BTC will be the global currency at some point but this guy just likes to hear himself talk It's pretty obvious that when people talk about a Bitcoin centric monetary system that it wouldn't be a debt based system like we have in the US today br Also, the point about 'money can't be a commodity' just sounded like a verbal slight of hand to me Or perhaps someone can explain what he was saying to me but THB i really don't care
Comment from : blottolotto

This explains the El Salvador project, regarding Bitcoin Without a substantial supply of clean renewable energy, bitcoin will be doomed
Comment from : Barry Smith

Keen's comments about Bitcoin like his comments about most things have not aged well Recently governments have agreed to accept bitcoin as a payment method Businesses already accept it
Comment from : Rob

Debt based fiat currency, crypto/ bitcoin, gold are all fake You can't eat and drink fiat, bitcoin, and gold Money does not reflect the earth's limits Money is not real Money is an illusion You can't make gold generate electricity You can't put a $20 bill in your vehicle and make it run
Comment from : Paul Page

BTC will fail
Comment from : I F***ing Love Taxes

This didn’t age well
Comment from : Konstantine Mitsel

51:25 Can you feel it? He's salty Good!
Comment from : Bitcoin Graffiti

How is his prediction going?
Comment from : Kenneth Clark

Well that prediction didn't work out yet
Comment from : Olivia

Great episode Pete out of his depth again lmao
Comment from : Compound Wealth Tree

all our energy comes from the stars most of it from our sun and it outputs magnitudes upon magnitudes more than we will need for the next millennia the energy fud is lazy and fundamentally broken good points on the nature of useful money tho
Comment from : moonsettler

Steve on Austrian econ: "it's wrong because the value function isn't objective" brbrSomething only a person with a computer model-centric view of society would say
Comment from : Kyle Dunn

@44:40 no mate, money is not really built on trust, not the way you think Since antiquity to the present day all State currency is based on the force of an army that can enforce taxation The "trust" is the bloody trust you have that the police or army will come after you if you do not pay tax liabilities Tax drives the demand for money, this is how it's been for over 4000 years Nothing backs bitcoin so a bitcoin's fair price is close to ZERO (or the energy cost to mine a coin) The tax driven currency system sounds horrendous, and it was, but it need not be The currency issuer has the moral obligation to make sure everyone can pay their tax liability, if they do not they've created unemployment in their currency, which is the true evil But an unnecessary evil
Comment from : Bijou Smith

This didn't age well
Comment from : Happee Boy

Yeah cause bitcoin is now at 29000 us dollars
Comment from : David Corbett

Learn far more from Steve Keen than most others!
Comment from : Mike Newland

with crypto currency, wouldn't a new gold standard based on tokenized gold work?
Comment from : jubba frubby

steve, wasn't the gold standard of the 19th century the least worst money standard, ie the best to date?
Comment from : jubba frubby

Energy theory of value is being used by Steve the same way labor theory of value was used by Marx Its justified by defensible observations but used to make dictates on peoples behavior that are not conclusions from the theory but instead opinions of the individual You cant go from the fact that thermodynamics exists to the conclusion that life ought to use energy to do one thing over anotherbrbrI could say global warming exist so we should be transitioning to nuclear energy I could say global warming exists so we should kill 99 of the population Which one should we choose based on energy value theory? Well in my opinion the former would maximize subjective preferences and the latter would minimize energy use
Comment from : Unifrog

Economics is extremely useful as a form of employment for economistsbrJohn Kenneth GalbraithbrbrThe economics profession has ignored the depreciation of durable brconsumer goods since Sputnik and of course they cannot recognize plannedbr obsolescence I asked a PhD economist at the University of Chicago to brexplain how an automobile engine worked He admitted that he could not brdo itbrbrWhat did Henry Ford do to economics? He was called a "class brtraitor" for the $5/day salary But still brought down the price of the brModel-T from 1908 to 1922 We have an economic wargame that most people brare not supposed to know how to playbr wwwtoxicdrumscom/economic-wargames-by-dal-timgarhtml
Comment from : psikeyhackr

Eat less beef? This heretic
Comment from : David Diaz

WHATTTTTTTTTTT the hell youre both nuts
Comment from : Hamlet Rivero

Ugh This guy is the king of Straw Man arguments Just an awful waste of an hour Save yourselves the headache, it only gets worse as he goes
Comment from : Fusion

Another baby boomer doesn't understand it
Comment from : M M

Bitcoins energy consumption is not related to transactions per second
Comment from : Arpad T

I listened to this and all I kept saying in my head was WRONG WRONG WRONG
Comment from : SteW567

Bravo A real economist for once!
Comment from : Jose Hawking

This guy seems not to know that the miner industry is moving towards capturing waste energy to mine BTC, thus, causing 0 increase in energy consumption
Comment from : Fabio Milan

One year later and Bitcoin is stronger than ever hmm I understand his points but he is wrong about bitcoin and the crypto market!
Comment from : Wandering Music

It's funny how even smart people don't understand that you can build on Bitcoin to improve it (both climate-wise and transactions per second) Transactions per second doesn't matter if you can see someone face-to-face sent you the transaction - you know it will come bc it is bitcoin Or if you buy online, do you care if it takes 7 minutes before a retailer receives your money? Bitcoin is already being adopted heavily on the massively growing Darknet, several countries seem to be using it (eg Iran, North Korea) – and that the security and size of the network is what has already made it a "killer app": Censorship resistant money and a store of value, which no other crypto really has achieved since they are vulnerable for a government size attack It is because bitcoin could live and grow for 10 years without any government resisting it, that it has become unstoppable today And that creates incentive to develop on it and improve it
Comment from : Mark Benfeldt Kjær

We’ll see in 5 years, or two halving’s
Comment from : Curious

socialist globalist dream will fall apart
Comment from : Keith Chapman

Although I agree that Bcash is a scam, saying that it was proven to be the false way to scale the network is false
Comment from : Bra bra

I don't agree with most points that Steve made but it's good to hear contrary opinion anyway More Bitcoin/crypto sceptics on the show please
Comment from : Vanta Black

Steves arguments against bitcoin are weird because he rejects it on grounds of principal rather than economics He doesn't grasp the economics of mining at all - the fact that it is a competition and based purely on what the highest "bid" for the block is and nothing at all to do with number of transactions He also never explains what it is that will stop people moving fiat in to bitcoin because on an individual level people do not care about the energy cost and the abstract deflationary bogeyman - they just want a store of value
Comment from : Paul Campbell

It seems like he doesn't understand how it works He thinks that the number of transactions scales with energy input? No And it seems like he thinks that high energy costs are a fatal flaw? Why? He never explains that Does he think what, we'll make it illegal in literally every country? Decentralization is the key there And he thinks that deflationary money can't be money Again, why? It being bad for most people doesn't mean it can't happen Its bad for most people if we don't turn around global warming too - but here we are He seems to conflate "this would be bad for people" with "this can't happen" and that is naive
Comment from : ticklefights

I think the scary thing is Steve Keen is still saying the same arguments He has helped many see the flaws in modern economics but may be missing some points in crypto He has this tick against mining (proof of work) and really should have gotten the research spoken about in the interview before it even began I would like to add that there is a possibility that some of the fairly created alt-coins could also pick up transactions maxing out their capacity as well They are already being mined all this time along side bitcoin but is unnoticed in these calculations I don't know why he still thinks that mining power needs to increase to increase the transaction throughput These points are not linked Another point that is missed is that Bitcoin is an ALTERNATIVE Do we need to be able to censorship resistance-ly buy a cup of coffee?? Bitcoin only needs to grow to fill in the gaps that tradition banking and finance has shunned or overlooked, but we may need
Comment from : Sterling Peyton

His premises are trash
Comment from : HexrayVision

And now steve is understanding bitcoin which is not BTC he is like BSV now not BTC has he has studied that btc is flawed
Comment from : Antoz

The rationale that will be used to outlaw bitcoin
Comment from : Curious

Currently the cost of mining gold exceeds the cost of bitcoin Are we going to ban the mining of gold?
Comment from : Curious

So you presume bitcoin (mined by energy) is inferior to fiat backed by nothing?brNot waytogo Steve Sorry Chasing wind is the best way I can describe your academ9c knowledge
Comment from : MARLO TREE

The 1st half of this podcast was good brThe secend half is bollocks Old guy using old out dated theory and philosophy to try and denounce something new Put this guy in the Peter Schiff pile
Comment from : Zach Dowlan

Those that want a better world, without central Bankster’s, need to call those running, you need to support bitcoin if you want my vote!
Comment from : Curious

Nano, in my view, could be a good currency Zero fee, low power But is it spam proof? Can it be as secure as Bitcoin? That is to be determined Right now, it is not
Comment from : swapster com

The FUD episode Covered almost every FUD talking point about Bitcoin
Comment from : Bitcoin Motorist

wow around the 1h mark he just goes off on an unorthodox realistic view of how economies work
Comment from : Edward Newell

I respect this guy for his deep knowledge of economics of the current and past economic systemsBitcoin is a new system he never studied And he seriously lacks any deep understanding of the Bitcoin ecosystem, its unique design, game theory, its miner reward/incentives design and its tamper proof design to be shutdown easily by gov'ts He kept saying it will fail because it will be shutdown due to excessive energy consumption but he doesn't explain the technical and practical ways of how to shut it down---EXPLAIN THE "HOW!" If it was that easy it would have been shutdown 10yrs ago He assumes the govt go into every basement in the whole world and shutdown miners! How naive? If all tech folks have failed to explain how gov't can shutdown bitcoin, will not let a non-tech person convince me otherwise!
Comment from : Norris Masters

10/10 Outstanding interview!
Comment from : Craig Shelton

Steve is right about problems but wrong about solutions
Comment from : Matt Alexander

Disappointed he got sucked into the energy debate, instead of arguing about the lack of price stability and necessary debt creation from national treasuries
Comment from : mikfax

Steve cannot see how the mining can scale?! He has obviously forgotten that this was the same criticism of the internet itself, over and over and over again And yet "miraculously" these internet scaling problems have one by one been solved I believe the same will apply within the bitcoin and general cryptocurrency environment
Comment from : Hit Reset

What is the electricity consumption that supports the current banking system vs the electricity consumption that supports the cryptocurrency environment??brMy guess is at a minimum they are comparable and at worst, it still favors the crypto environ
Comment from : Hit Reset

The instant Steve Keen brought up so called global warming as something other than an evil hoax perpetrated for its principle purpose of global impoverishment, I had to shut him down as that makes every other thing he says as of no real substancebrThis guy is a shadow communist or simply pure gullibility and most likely both
Comment from : larry ELLIOTT

Steve has been banging on for years about global debt and as soon as Bitcoin comes along with zero debt, and will always have zero debt, it's too scary for him It's 300 billion in value (for now) versus a 100 trillion dollar industry It's current best case use is it sits outside the system as a hedge like digital gold although infinitely more useable He can hold his breath and stamp his feet but unstoppable open public blockchains are here and he better start figuring out how to incorporate into his economic models or he will be left behind
Comment from : Ken Bailey

Clearly Keen has no idea about Bitcoin Just repeating pap from the media It will scale The same was said of the internet 25 years ago
Comment from : Ken Bailey

Steve has done really valuable work, but frankly, speaks with little doubt on anything which should make anyone suspicious His understanding of Bitcoin basics is puerile
Comment from : Jan-Willem

Keen on economics but dull on global "warming"
Comment from : Simon Smith

Arrogant mumbo jumbo and obvious superficial understanding of Bitcoin I was hoping to hear a solid explanation from such an esteemed commentator, economic or technical, of some fundamental flaw(s) in the Bitcoin protocol Nope Just another old man shouting at Bitcoin Keen dismisses Bitcoin on its electricity usage He doesn't understand that energy used to mine Bitcoin is variable, it depends on the difficulty miners have in solving the 'hash puzzle' in a blockThe protocol adjusts this difficulty over time and can go down as well as up Besides the electricity used to mine Bitcoin is not even 01 of that used by the global banking system The system Bitcoin will eventually replace Gold mining and paper currency printing and minting all use orders of magnitude more electricity I could go on, including the type and source of electricity used by Bitcoin, ie, nothing like the "same as Belgium' type fallacies he mentions
Comment from : Dan Murray

How will Bitcoin survive the end of the energy grid? That end is inevitable, and will either come as a proactive measure to limit the effects of catastrophic climate change (shut down all motor vehicle and air travel now, ban industrial farming and shut down the internet and its carbon-vomiting server farms, including Bitcoin), or as a consequence of NOT acting to limit those same effects Either way, anything that requires energy inputs in excess of the solar budget allotted to each living being is doomed long before the end of this century
Comment from : Alan Doane

ur an economist what do u know about energy all u know is gossip energy
Comment from : Fedrico Nunez

Steve Bitcoins energy consumption is proportional to security not transactions
Comment from : Zac

Steve Keen makes so many good points, not only on Bitcoin (which I really like) but he makes some great points on the current economic problems and also the problems with the education system at the end of the video
Comment from : Sean

It's bloody annoying when the interviewer doesn't push back on these militant environmentalist claims that Bitcoin is wasteful in its energy consumption How much does the guest know about the energy consumption of the VISA payment network? How many offices are staffed and lit, how many payment terminals are powered up, how many data centers are online 24/7? Will the VISA payment network be deemed too resource intensive in the next decade? Will we shut it down? Or will we recognise that there is room on this planet for a payment system that provides a long list of net positives to humanity surely that is worth a little energy input
Comment from : Fintan Stack

I agree on a lot of the points except the energy point scailing doesn't come from more minners, you get securitybrbrSo let's say bitcoin is worth one million by time the bitcoin gets halved to 05 bitcoin per block that means the total cost will be 05 million worth of energy as no minners will mine if it isn't profitable and alot of miners are starting to cut there costs by creating alot of there on energy by wind or solarbrbrAlso have got to put in play the total costs that banks have to run there massive server rooms and keeping them up time also the truck loads of money getting shipped around each country
Comment from : Tom Bennett

This idiot has no idea what money is!
Comment from : Paul Oshea

i don't know about you, but i think bitcoin deserve that amount of energy more than the entire nation of Belgium if you think about the benefit it can bring to the human race
Comment from : jiang ji

Guy doesn't understand that increasing transaction throughput doesn't increase the energy cost of the Bitcoin blockchain Maybe read up on the technology before criticizing something you don't understand
Comment from : Paal Wik

A lot of people don't get decentralization even when they are excited by things like EOS, but decentralization is the only reason Bitcoin or Ethereum would have any value Its a pity he didn't discuss Ethereum's POS plans I'm sure he prefers EOS over Ethereum because he did seem to dislike the idea of decentralization and want the continuation of trust It won't work, as it has not been working He's right about deflation for sure though, this love of deflation is probably going to take it down a bad road
Comment from : john hancock

Let’s say there’s no more banks All the buildings all the armored trucks all of car is it pollutes that’s a lot of energy compared to the bitcoin mining
Comment from : Burton Nelson

Sounds to me he’s a central planner as far as energy use if you have all the minors compared to all the bankers and their trucks to haul paper for you at all over the place which is more energy consumption?
Comment from : Burton Nelson

We will have many POS and than many many country use an alternative way to produce energy such in Paraguay who will use the solar energy
Comment from : Stefano Del Piero