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Lidar vs. Tesla: the race for fully self driving cars

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How ”self–driving” do you want your self-driving car to be? Comment from : The Verge

Yes, yes, yes, we need self driving cars, and those self driving cars will need LiDAR! Injuries & deaths from traffic crashes will be greatly reduced when we have self driving cars As a 70-year-old who loves to take road trips across our beautiful country I know those road trips will get shorter and shorter as my skills diminish over time I’m counting on self driving cars to be able to continue my journeys! Comment from : Steve Friebel

im confused you just said that full self driving cars work with cruise and waymo and half the vids you showed of them not working were of cruise and waymo in San Francisco lmfao Comment from : MrZombiekiller23

But what about gaydar? Give the people what they want Comment from : Bill Burns Brown

LiDAR schmidar… The car could literally be fully aware of every atom within 100 miles The real problem is real-time adaptive reasoning Human soft gray matter fuckn rules in that department Comment from : El dog

when you talk about how many people hurt using lidar while providing the miles, you should as well compare it to tesla while providing the miles, to make them on a comparable scale Comment from : Kyle Liao

i dont understand whats wrong on "laser is the sause" Comment from : Kyle Liao

Self driving cars would be a God send to those who do not drive Comment from : Ben Dunaway

now they renoved USS Comment from : TeslaBull

Lidar doesn't even work in heavy rain So all companies that trust on lidar must have a 100 working redundant camera system if they want their cars to drive autonomous in all weather conditions Why should anyone develop two separate systems if only one of them is capable of mastering all situations? For me Lidar is only a historical intermediate step, due to the lack of skill in processing 2d camera data to 3d data Humans only have a visual sense as well And humans never make accidents because we lack a lidar sense We make accidents because we overestimate ourself (driving-skills, alcohol, drugs etc) or we get distracted Both will not happen to computers Since FSD Beta 114 it's not about what sensors anymore, but about how much data the AI ​​has to be fed to drive better and safer than human Comment from : Kafi Luz

Lidar, radar, and cameras All are needed to have safe fsd, it wont be cheap though Comment from : Fred-F4

With the release of Tesla's v14 neural net suite that learns from driving footage without the need to code in maps and specific instructions, Tesla is now arguably closest to a computer driving like a human does, but without the human error that causes most accidents Lidar seems overkill when we are literally a living example of how driving is accomplished with just images and neural networks Comment from : A Moosa

Wow I stopped watching after I realized how biased this wasbrTry taking a waymo car and a Tesla to a place neither has ever driven on before brGet back to me with the results brWe already lnow Comment from : Anthony Trotman

I believe in lidar Comment from : Abdul Rohim Lubis

So, no consensus what tech is best for FSD, still we expecting LVL 5 anytime soon Comment from : Hydro has Spoken

😍 Comment from : Dr harish Krishnappa

Does LiDAR outperform camera data in adverse conditions? That would be the #1 question to me I thought that it did, but I read otherwise Comment from : M Hector

It's ironic that Google was and still likely is the leader in image recognition and yet still saw the need for sensor redundancy to reach necessary confidence levels for safe driverless operation With Tesla FSD, we still see lots of issues with the perception We often see it initially misplace objects in the world or identify objects which aren't there If you watch FSD videos closely, you'll often see phantom road cones appear, suggesting Tesla is setting its confidence thresholds low in order to not miss things, but at the expense of occasionally seeing things that don't exist You can also see it get fooled by reflections, sometimes showing cars driving inside buildings that have reflective windows Comment from : communityband1

Either you don't really understand Tesla's FSD or youre being economical with the truth Ive also noticed your other video on why DJI is not innovative Your takes are mostly midwit or biased understanding Comment from : Kiprotich Salat

Self driving cars will not be the cure for climate changebrWe need to get away from car culture and eliminate private car ownershipbrMicro-mobility and public transportation are what we needbrNot gimmicks to make car makers rich Comment from : Bobbie Bees

I personally don't want a self driving car Cars are fun to drive What's the point when you will not be able to drive them one day? Comment from : Kartik Kashyap

Did way more partner up with Jaguar? Comment from : yuval158

Waymo wouldn't afford to make FSDC for everyone with those bunch of sensors which spoil the look of the car Waymo just doesn't have the capital Comment from : Mpiro ka Joseph Mgcokoca

Can lidar read Speed limit or text in signboard? Comment from : Redmund Perrz

Not Gonna happen Comment from : Marc Macaluso

100 self-driving cars were a fascinating dream that will come true "next year", maybe 5-8 years ago Now, some 8 years later, it's like that fancy uni degree you fought SOO hard to get! Received 50 of it Getting 50 of the desired salary And paying the student load for the next 20 years Comment from : D M

or hear me out better more efficient, safe, and reliable public transportation? Comment from : caldehh

Calm before the storm Comment from : Felix Bronkhorst

This video ruins the reputation of The Verge because it fails to provide concise technical explanation as well as Pros and Cons comparison between (Liadar/High Definition Map Method) vs (Tesla's Pure Vision Method) of Full Shelf Driving And because of this failure, this video should change its title to "Promotion of Lidar Base Full Shelf Driving" instead Comment from : Hsang Li

I miss the Tech Verge guy Comment from : Niraj Khanal

don trust elon What he wants is to make more money Comment from : fatcrruise

Well your video are comparing Waymo and Tesla, right as you mentioned Why didn't you show 1 million miles driven by Waymo vs Tesla FSD and jump on a 2019 comparison Also did FSD get worst now compared to 2019? Is that a really a good assessment? Not really Comment from : rbalds

The moment it rains or so Lidar is rip so yer There you have it, very easy to say witch one will win Comment from : GIG

Biased AF😅 Comment from : DownShiftZM

He's too stubborn and will double down on what he said than admit Comment from : Peter Yang

Telsa cars with Ouster Lidar was spotted on street Comment from : C

Lidar doesn't work in the rain or fog so it's pretty much useless in most places Comment from : Karim Benallal

So many assumptions Zero science Waste of time Comment from : Curtis

Wow this video is on the 'verge' of being a hit piece No mention of the Tesla occupancy network as a replacement for LIDAR? Comparing accidents from 1 million miles of driverless on curated pre mapped roads, with many million human controlled autopilot miles on all roads, without mentioning any FSD miles? Very weird Comment from : James Boman

I'm 100 willing to believe that Tesla has cut Lidar for cost efficiencies and that Lidar provides a more complete view of the car's surrounding However, this episode lacked the technical depth to really explain if that makes a difference The 1 million miles number (perhaps the lifecycle of 4-6 cars) is so insignficant compared to the number of miles that Tesla vehicles drive Also, while Lidar provides a more complete view of the car's surround, is it really necessary to replace human drivers (that can only "see" things and not sense depth in the way that Lidar does)?brbrI liked the intent behind the episode and I'd love to see a more systemic and scientific approach to journalism in future episodes Comment from : Pranav Bhasin

It reconstruct the debate of bicycle that we need more than 2 wheels to avoid falling Comment from : watcher

the tests works because it's phenix, a very simple grid, and not alot of drivers Comment from : Vicy Notasurname

I personally have very little interest in binot-driving/i/b my car! I mostly enjoy driving brbrWhat I bido/i/b have interest in is ADAS systems that make driving easier, less stressful, and virtually impossible to do anything unsafe Comment from : Gary Morrison

Gaydar is better than lidar Comment from : emmanuel

The Verge videos are consistantly predictable in their conclusion (ie Tesla will fail) This tells is alot, even though this one is not THAT bad Comment from : sebb9999

AI can achieve accuracy closer to lidar through training Comment from : AureusApps

Why don’t u do one of these videos on WTH is the 5G we were promised multiple years ago??? And the BS about 5G being sub millisecond ping times 😂😂😂, the server you would be pinging would have to be barley 125 miles away in order for it to be below 1 millisecond ping Misleading lies!!! Comment from : Accumulator

This was an excellent video Short and sweet Comment from : June Park

It's all about the AI software processing of these data points collected by the sensors/cameras So in the end that's what gonna matter Pls get your facts right brbrI think you need to gain some more technical info before talking about these navigation systems Either Lidar or FSD you are not talking about actual tech that's applied to navigate, simply choosing a tool over the other doesn't equate to better results brbrFor Eg Google Pixel didn't change their sensor for like 4 generations still took the best photos of any smartphone why isn't the fsncy new sensor help other phones beat the pixel phone? Comment from : Spectra Films

Why cars tho I hate that the usa is so car dependent Comment from : RoyRoy

What was the point of this 8 min video - Tesla may have to use Lidar in the future? And that's it? Comment from : Metaforically Speaking

I was hoping to actually hear from experts We know we were overzealous think lvl 5 would already be here, but we still cant decide what tech is required to accomplish this? Comment from : tom jones

Mvis Comment from : Tyris Jordan

This is very simple if you think about Does human use vision or lidar to process information behind the wheel? Comment from : HungryDrago

I'm so relieved that Lidar vehicles shift liability to the auto manufacturer when it runs over a kid at a crosswalk Venture capital spending is billions of dollars to put cab drivers out of work The government is investing hundreds of millions of dollars into autonomous vehicle research instead of on quality public transportation Our priorities should be people, not tech Comment from : Josh S

Josh topolsky is a beta kuck Comment from : Vishus Venom

Better public transportation/infrastructure and less reliance on cars - it's what you need Comment from : Dmitrij Paškevič

Elon Musk is behind some impressive companies that have accomplished some amazing things His biggest problem is admitting when he was wrong His ego seemingly won't allow it Comment from : Cactus Tweeter

I’m not so sure, with added cameras to Tesla’s HW4 I think they could get pretty darn close Comment from : cwbh10

I think you underestimate the exponential computational power of AI for full self-drivingbrDidn't even mention Dojo, Tesla's supercomputer for processing car data Elon is betting on AI to solve the problem and I wouldn't bet against him Comment from : Samurai

I think LiDARr is important but only for additional context, the full package of 360 is basically overkillbrbrbut Tesla's approach allows the system to react to the "event" than to react by the "event" liDAR is basically just checksum with this approach Comment from : PrograError

Tesla seems to be on that path of improving cruise control basically It will be really really good, but still need human control brbrOther companies with LIDAR seem to be towards fully autonomousbrbrEdit: And I think the statistics provided in the video say it for themselves which company is more successful I think the tech will get cheaper and will probably become more affordable for regular consumers to get That seems more reasonable than just relying on cameras I have a (non-Tesla) car with 360° FOV and I’ll say it’s really nice for sure! But in rain or darkness… cameras don’t work They rely on the car’s lights in the dark In heavy rain, you better roll down your windows I put a minor scratched on my car from my mailbox because I overly relied on the car’s cameras and couldn’t see the mailbox in the dark and rain Comment from : Chris Solace

Who think safety was “expensive” was the guy in Titan Comment from : Pedro Teixeira

When did Tesla remove LIDAR from its cars? Comment from : cantstopmistadomino

I miss Verge science, and we need more content like this ❤ Your content recently has been all over the tech and fashion tech map Comment from : VJechev

As someone who worked with GIS, photogrammetry and with reduced acuity in one eye due to surgery ( low stereoscopic vision) I can tell you the following LiDAR does not only produces a 3D map of the environment but for every 3D point scanned detects the doppler shift so from a single image you can tell what is around you, what is moving and what is standing Theoretically speaking , stereo cameras or arrays of cameras can achieve near human levels of seeing but your brain can Id each an every part of the environment, can tell what is moving what is dangerous can gauge distances based on proportional sizes and many more Also cameras are susceptible to a variety of optical illusions (forced perspectives etc) different items with near same colors and so on I do not know if LiDAR is the cure all solution for Level 5 autonomy ( the holy grail) but is close enough Comment from : Efstathios Dimopoulos

Theoretically, camera can do everything LiDAR can But the AI for the cameras are not ready yet So in the meanwhile, one can use LiDAR to fill the gap or wait until the technologies come along If we try to buy one of those WayMo or Cruze's cars, no one can afford it (would be hundreds of thousand dollars for all the LiDARs), so Tesla has no choice but to push the camera based autonomous driving to keep the price tag reasonable Comment from : Hyunchul Shim

Aaaah wemo is that car that can do those cool party tricks which will never work if anything changes at all Hmm how often do we see anything being changed in the streets in a city like a construction site 😅😅 Hahah gm is toast Comment from : Andreas Petersson

Quantum level AI should be able to use cameras and infrared camerasLidar might be better but optimizing AI should be similarIt's like with the Canadian fires, that stuff is arson and needs quicker responseAI cameras in balloon drone hybrids with infrared camsboth technologies need to advance, so even if Tesla is wrong, cameras with AI plus infrared tech need investment advancement anyway Comment from : gee humor

Of course he's 100 wrong, there's no need to give it a second thought Comment from : JWSTinTheSky

Having more sensors without adequate “brain” tech doesn’t necessarily get us to true autonomy/robotaxi; in addition to more Teslas being on the road (which you rightly pointed out) Tesla FSD Beta (emphasis on BETA) also drives on highways with higher speeds, thus if crash occurs, more serious damage Comment from : HSIAO HU

Anyone paying any attention already knew this about LiDAR and Self-driving… was so counter productive when Elon turfed it, but the costs explained it But it’s good to have it all wrapped up so nicely in one video Comment from : M Mo

I will never relinquish the the steering wheel nor will I be driven by a driverless car brbrYou people can take risks with your own life Comment from : Venice Lockjaw

I miss Dieter😭😭 Comment from : Dennis Matambanadzo

Tesla autoplot have over 5 bilioin miles driven, so the accident rate is lower Comment from : MaciekTV

Thank you Now I can refer people to this video instead of explaining them why I prefer to drive a Skoda with a good radar instead of a Tesla as it just sees more brAnd for sure my next car will be one with a Lidar just to prevent crashes as good as it gets To protect drivers but also also pedestrians Comment from : Petr

> Cars that he promises will become fully autonomous some daybrbrOnly simpletons and elon fans still believe this nonsense Comment from : Sergey Nazarov

No, we me rail and we need to ban cars Comment from : David Ramirez

So ignoring lidar alone, there are way more cameras and sensors in a Waymo taxi than any Tesla cars Those self-driving mods are a lot more than just the lidar Yeah, it's great those Waymo etc cars are good at self-driving, but it's not some magic bullet If anything it would be weird to expect those cars of vehicles to perform at the same level as a Tesla given they costs a lot more in terms of what goes into the self-driving hardware Because it's not just the use of Lidar that is the difference, this video's argument is bogus Comment from : rotinoma

You are comparing the wrong things Tesla Autopilot is different than FSD beta So please compare Lidar to FSD beta which are the current competing concepts Thx! Comment from : Thomas Martha

id say yes and no to the title question hes right to train without lidar, but once its good like that adding lidar would be perfect Comment from : Erobus Black

The LiDAR lobby is strong Comment from : Jefferson

Radar or even LiDAR would've prevented any of these crashes from taking place Comment from : EM

It doesn't seem fair to me to compare Waymo's accident record in miles and Tesla's in years It would have to be in the same unit (distance or time), although distance seems to be the best indicator Comment from : Diogo Pires

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